Galantis and 5 Seconds of Summer’s Michael Clifford on ‘Lighter’ Collab

The best song Christian Karlsson has ever made could be sitting on a hard drive somewhere, unfinished and completely forgotten by the producer and DJ who performs as Galantis. It’s been four years since his last album, Church, and in that time he’s picked up and put down hundreds of raw demos that he has crafted on a near daily basis. “There’s so much music all the time. I mean, I write songs every day and so many people that are in my team write songs every day,” Galantis tells Rolling Stone over Zoom. “On top of that, other artists and DJs and producers keep on sending their ideas every day. The trickiest part is actually to make a choice about what you’re going to work on.”

When Galantis songs are sent to the musical abyss, it’s often before they’ve had the chance to be paired with the right vocalist or transformed with just the right instrumental arrangement. That was almost the fate of “Lighter,” the latest single from Galantis’ upcoming fourth studio album. He first heard the song around two years ago when a writer in his camp played him a raw recording. It sparked his interest, but not enough to light a fire. Eventually, he moved on. Meanwhile, they continued searching for the perfect artist to bring it to life. They ended up finding two: David Guetta and 5 Seconds of Summer.

Guetta and Galantis have orbited each other as collaborators and leaders in the dance scene for nearly a decade. But 5 Seconds of Summer — the pop/rock band composed of Luke Hemmings, Michael Clifford, Ashton Irwin, and Calum Hood — are more insular, having collaborated with just a handful of artists in the past decade. “I got a fortune cookie the other day. It said, ‘When an opportunity knocks, open the door,’” Clifford, who produced “Lighter” alongside Guetta and Galantis, tells Rolling Stone. “That’s always the mindset that we’ve had since day one of our career. We never say no to anything that feels like it could be a step in the right direction in helping other people — who have never heard of us — hear our music.” 

In an exclusive interview, Galantis and Clifford tell Rolling Stone about their evolution as artists and collaborators, melding dance music with pop/rock and a 28-piece orchestra on “Lighter” — and why some of the best songs are worth waiting for. 

“Lighter” marks five years since 5 Seconds of Summer’s last proper collaboration as a featured artist, “Who Do You Love” with the Chainsmokers. Tell me about how your paths crossed for this.
Clifford: The idea of this collaboration came up about a year ago, and to be honest — you’re right, we don’t do a lot of collaborations. We have severe anxiety that no one likes us. So when people say that they would like to collaborate with us, we really love it. We definitely like experimenting in different worlds as well. 
Galantis: I loved what 5 Seconds of Summer had done with it, how they sounded on it. I talked to Guetta about, from a dance perspective, what we wanted to do. And then I talked to Michael, who was an absolute sweetheart, so humble, and had so much warmth — he’s so easy to talk to and so knowledgeable about music and production.
Clifford: There were a few changes that we wanted to make in terms of some of the lyrics and the way that some of the melodies were going together. But the song has its identity, and that was something that we wanted to keep true to as well. [We wanted] to make sure that we were able to put our own stamp on it outside of Luke’s vocal and the vocals that we put on it that obviously will make it sound like a 5 Seconds of Summer song.

What was that experience like of trading ideas back and forth? 
Galantis: I was inspired talking about what we could do with the song, with his ideas and I told him my ideas. One of my things was that I wanted to bring in a 28-piece live orchestra. He said he was really down for that and he had so many different guitar things, they recorded live drums, and sent me files back and forth. It was actually a really, really true collaboration. Not just doing your piece and then letting someone else do their piece. 
Clifford: I guess for me, I didn’t really understand that that doesn’t happen. I thought that was pretty normal when you work with someone, that it’s very much like, let’s all have an input here and work on it together. When I would message Christian, I’d be like, “Well, what do you think about this thing? I felt like I would maybe change this one thing.” And I think he was sort of like, “Whoa.” Is that not normal? 
Galantis: I did a ton of songs for other people and I had my years with Britney Spears or whoever. But then you’re not really allowed to be as free and just go with whatever you’re doing. There are people who want you to finish it in time, and there are deadlines and all that — and all of a sudden, it feels more and more like real work, right? Not just going with all your flows of creativity at once, which I do now all the time.

5SOS released a live album last year, The Feeling of Falling Upwards, which reimagined songs from throughout their discography with a 12-piece orchestra at Royal Albert Hall. Live strings have become a recurring element across Galantis records, too. What is it about that theatrical, orchestral approach that takes pop songs to another level? 
Galantis: I record a lot of strings because they always give me emotion that no other instrument does. The whole thing where strings are always kind of in and out of tune, you can’t really fake it with a sample or a synth. It’s not the same thing.
Clifford: They’re underutilized! I feel like when it comes to pop music, live strings are slept on. They make the music feel so much more alive, and they make it feel like it has this gravitas to it. It makes things sound bigger but also a little more human in the same way. You get these tiny, microtonal notes that are just very slightly out of key or sharp or flat. It adds this sense of like, “Oh, there’s people behind this.” 
Galantis: This is probably one of the better, if not the best, [songs] that I feel like I took a chance on [adding strings]. It has so many live strings all over and, usually, you just can’t have that. Usually, you have to mute and pick little parts so it doesn’t get overwhelmed. But it’s just balanced, and it really works.
Clifford: When it comes to orchestras specifically, our experience with Royal Albert Hall was us explaining [our ideas] to this group of professional musicians who could read the sheet in front of them. I would be like, “The note that’s before the chorus, I think that note should maybe come down a semitone or a tone.” And they’re like, “You mean the C sharp on bar 94 before the glissando?” I was like, “Dude, I have no idea. This note just feels kind of weird, and maybe we should change it.” 

What was it like bridging the gap between the dance realm that Galantis and David Guetta occupy and 5SOS’s pop-rock sound?
Galantis: Even though we might be completely different genres, during the creative process it was like we were doing exactly the same type of music. To me, that means a lot. My thing is not just four-on-the-floor; it’s creating and writing, and then I package it. I’m not 5 Seconds of Summer; I’m Galantis, so I’ll do Galantis. This gives me more freedom because all of a sudden, I don’t have to stick to something that’s pure dance because this is a collaboration. I don’t have any boundaries. 
Clifford: We would never make a song that sounds like Galantis, or like David Guetta. But being able to work with them on it and create something that they have for their vision is pretty awesome. We made a version that we thought was, you know, the 5SOS version. We recorded a bunch of guitars and layered things that sounded more like live drums, played acoustic and live piano, felted piano, and recorded our own vocals on it. Then Galantis and David have an idea of what they think represents them in their music as well. 
Galantis: Of course, I tried stuff, both me and David, like, “Oh, should we do this? Bring a little more dance here and there?” We did some, but we also let the song kind of go where we felt the song wanted to go. I think it’s a great balance of us three coming together.

Was there a particular moment in creating this record that surprised you, or taught you something? 
Galantis: For me, it was actually the first phone call with Michael. I wanted to try a bunch of live things, and he was so into that. He’s like, “I want to record drums.” And I was like, “I want to do strings.” And then he’s like, “I tried this live bass today.” Our instant, pure happiness of liking each other’s ideas about the song, that to me felt like, okay, this song is already good. I had already been working on it, and he had too. But that’s where it clicked because I knew that it was just the beginning. There was so much more left to explore. 
Clifford:  I’m a serial over-thinker when it comes to anything in terms of my own production. Sometimes it’s crippling, and I’ll just be completely frozen to the point where I’m like, well, I don’t know if this is good, and I don’t know if changing it is good. Now I’m completely stuck. When I was talking to Christian, I’d send this big list — I’m literally talking about one snare hit. I’d be like, “This one snare. What do you think?” And he’s like, “I think it sounds good.” I’m realizing that there are other incredibly talented people who, if they think something is great, then I’m just sort of being crazy and overthinking the tiny little things. It got to the place that it got to for a reason and maybe you don’t need to dissect things into oblivion in order for it to be any better. 

Galantis, you’ve been bringing more featured artists into the fold with each of your albums. Meanwhile, 5SOS have become more collaborative within themselves, with Michael stepping into a more prominent producer role. Tell me about your evolution as collaborators over the years. 
Galantis: Those relationships are everything to me. Yes, I like to meet new people and work, but I’d rather go with someone that I’ve worked with before because you can jump straight into it. You know each other, how you work, how you feel, how you talk, how you express sounds and production, or songwriting in general. With someone new, there’s always that thing where you’re trying to be so respectful that you might not say what you really feel. But if you have that respect, the ego or whatever it is doesn’t matter.
Clifford: Collaborating with us is hard because the four of us know each other so well that when it comes to saying ideas, we’re so direct and able to be really honest with each other. When you’re talking to somebody where it’s a fresh relationship, it’s a little bit harder. But I feel like it’s something that we’re good at — at least about expressing what we want and don’t want to be different about something.
Galantis: Michael was someone new, but that’s why I needed to say how natural and organic it felt from our first conversation. We felt like we’d been working before. I think that maybe somewhat depends on who you are, but if you are seasoned in the industry, I think that helps you feel each other out really quickly. 

“Lighter” serves as a major introduction to Galantis’ first album in four years. How have you been thinking about how both you and your fans have grown over that time? 
Galantis: I’ve been telling myself not to get affected by people’s assumption of what I should be doing next. That’s very easy to get drawn into, especially if you have a big hit. People want to assume that you’re writing another one. It’s not like I don’t want to do that, but I don’t believe that you can write another one. The nerve and the DNA and the reason you like that one is because when I created that one, I didn’t give a shit about anything. That’s why it sounds like that. So, if I do a new one and you’re like, “Oh, it doesn’t sound like that.” Yeah, that’s because I can never go back, and the listener can’t go back, either. 
Clifford: It’s funny that music becomes more about your time in life and what that song means to you in that moment versus just loving that song. There are so many songs that I’ve listened to over the last three or four months that are really amazing songs, but I connect with them so much because my daughter was just born three and a half months ago. 
Galantis: There’s a connection — you and that song. That’s also why I can never beat that song because you’re not going to be in that position the next time. Things that happen that day, that week, that year — a lot of things go into it that you connect to. Those pieces, no musician can control. That’s why you go back to it, and you feel a certain way when you listen to it again. If you’re getting fed everything through like short snippets on social media, what is it you’re gonna connect it to? Nothing special was happening. 
Clifford: It’s incredible, as far as being a producer and being an artist, that we get to be a part of that experience sometimes.

The best song Christian Karlsson has ever made could be sitting on a hard drive somewhere, unfinished and completely forgotten by the producer and DJ who performs as Galantis. It’s been four years since his last album, Church, and in that time he’s picked up and put down hundreds of raw demos that he has crafted on a near daily basis. “There’s so much music all the time. I mean, I write songs every day and so many people that are in my team write songs every day,” Galantis tells Rolling Stone over Zoom. “On top of that, other artists and DJs and producers keep on sending their ideas every day. The trickiest part is actually to make a choice about what you’re going to work on.”

When Galantis songs are sent to the musical abyss, it’s often before they’ve had the chance to be paired with the right vocalist or transformed with just the right instrumental arrangement. That was almost the fate of “Lighter,” the latest single from Galantis’ upcoming fourth studio album. He first heard the song around two years ago when a writer in his camp played him a raw recording. It sparked his interest, but not enough to light a fire. Eventually, he moved on. Meanwhile, they continued searching for the perfect artist to bring it to life. They ended up finding two: David Guetta and 5 Seconds of Summer.

Guetta and Galantis have orbited each other as collaborators and leaders in the dance scene for nearly a decade. But 5 Seconds of Summer — the pop/rock band composed of Luke Hemmings, Michael Clifford, Ashton Irwin, and Calum Hood — are more insular, having collaborated with just a handful of artists in the past decade. “I got a fortune cookie the other day. It said, ‘When an opportunity knocks, open the door,’” Clifford, who produced “Lighter” alongside Guetta and Galantis, tells Rolling Stone. “That’s always the mindset that we’ve had since day one of our career. We never say no to anything that feels like it could be a step in the right direction in helping other people — who have never heard of us — hear our music.” 

In an exclusive interview, Galantis and Clifford tell Rolling Stone about their evolution as artists and collaborators, melding dance music with pop/rock and a 28-piece orchestra on “Lighter” — and why some of the best songs are worth waiting for. 

“Lighter” marks five years since 5 Seconds of Summer’s last proper collaboration as a featured artist, “Who Do You Love” with the Chainsmokers. Tell me about how your paths crossed for this.
Clifford: The idea of this collaboration came up about a year ago, and to be honest — you’re right, we don’t do a lot of collaborations. We have severe anxiety that no one likes us. So when people say that they would like to collaborate with us, we really love it. We definitely like experimenting in different worlds as well. 
Galantis: I loved what 5 Seconds of Summer had done with it, how they sounded on it. I talked to Guetta about, from a dance perspective, what we wanted to do. And then I talked to Michael, who was an absolute sweetheart, so humble, and had so much warmth — he’s so easy to talk to and so knowledgeable about music and production.
Clifford: There were a few changes that we wanted to make in terms of some of the lyrics and the way that some of the melodies were going together. But the song has its identity, and that was something that we wanted to keep true to as well. [We wanted] to make sure that we were able to put our own stamp on it outside of Luke’s vocal and the vocals that we put on it that obviously will make it sound like a 5 Seconds of Summer song.

What was that experience like of trading ideas back and forth? 
Galantis: I was inspired talking about what we could do with the song, with his ideas and I told him my ideas. One of my things was that I wanted to bring in a 28-piece live orchestra. He said he was really down for that and he had so many different guitar things, they recorded live drums, and sent me files back and forth. It was actually a really, really true collaboration. Not just doing your piece and then letting someone else do their piece. 
Clifford: I guess for me, I didn’t really understand that that doesn’t happen. I thought that was pretty normal when you work with someone, that it’s very much like, let’s all have an input here and work on it together. When I would message Christian, I’d be like, “Well, what do you think about this thing? I felt like I would maybe change this one thing.” And I think he was sort of like, “Whoa.” Is that not normal? 
Galantis: I did a ton of songs for other people and I had my years with Britney Spears or whoever. But then you’re not really allowed to be as free and just go with whatever you’re doing. There are people who want you to finish it in time, and there are deadlines and all that — and all of a sudden, it feels more and more like real work, right? Not just going with all your flows of creativity at once, which I do now all the time.

5SOS released a live album last year, The Feeling of Falling Upwards, which reimagined songs from throughout their discography with a 12-piece orchestra at Royal Albert Hall. Live strings have become a recurring element across Galantis records, too. What is it about that theatrical, orchestral approach that takes pop songs to another level? 
Galantis: I record a lot of strings because they always give me emotion that no other instrument does. The whole thing where strings are always kind of in and out of tune, you can’t really fake it with a sample or a synth. It’s not the same thing.
Clifford: They’re underutilized! I feel like when it comes to pop music, live strings are slept on. They make the music feel so much more alive, and they make it feel like it has this gravitas to it. It makes things sound bigger but also a little more human in the same way. You get these tiny, microtonal notes that are just very slightly out of key or sharp or flat. It adds this sense of like, “Oh, there’s people behind this.” 
Galantis: This is probably one of the better, if not the best, [songs] that I feel like I took a chance on [adding strings]. It has so many live strings all over and, usually, you just can’t have that. Usually, you have to mute and pick little parts so it doesn’t get overwhelmed. But it’s just balanced, and it really works.
Clifford: When it comes to orchestras specifically, our experience with Royal Albert Hall was us explaining [our ideas] to this group of professional musicians who could read the sheet in front of them. I would be like, “The note that’s before the chorus, I think that note should maybe come down a semitone or a tone.” And they’re like, “You mean the C sharp on bar 94 before the glissando?” I was like, “Dude, I have no idea. This note just feels kind of weird, and maybe we should change it.” 

What was it like bridging the gap between the dance realm that Galantis and David Guetta occupy and 5SOS’s pop-rock sound?
Galantis: Even though we might be completely different genres, during the creative process it was like we were doing exactly the same type of music. To me, that means a lot. My thing is not just four-on-the-floor; it’s creating and writing, and then I package it. I’m not 5 Seconds of Summer; I’m Galantis, so I’ll do Galantis. This gives me more freedom because all of a sudden, I don’t have to stick to something that’s pure dance because this is a collaboration. I don’t have any boundaries. 
Clifford: We would never make a song that sounds like Galantis, or like David Guetta. But being able to work with them on it and create something that they have for their vision is pretty awesome. We made a version that we thought was, you know, the 5SOS version. We recorded a bunch of guitars and layered things that sounded more like live drums, played acoustic and live piano, felted piano, and recorded our own vocals on it. Then Galantis and David have an idea of what they think represents them in their music as well. 
Galantis: Of course, I tried stuff, both me and David, like, “Oh, should we do this? Bring a little more dance here and there?” We did some, but we also let the song kind of go where we felt the song wanted to go. I think it’s a great balance of us three coming together.

Was there a particular moment in creating this record that surprised you, or taught you something? 
Galantis: For me, it was actually the first phone call with Michael. I wanted to try a bunch of live things, and he was so into that. He’s like, “I want to record drums.” And I was like, “I want to do strings.” And then he’s like, “I tried this live bass today.” Our instant, pure happiness of liking each other’s ideas about the song, that to me felt like, okay, this song is already good. I had already been working on it, and he had too. But that’s where it clicked because I knew that it was just the beginning. There was so much more left to explore. 
Clifford:  I’m a serial over-thinker when it comes to anything in terms of my own production. Sometimes it’s crippling, and I’ll just be completely frozen to the point where I’m like, well, I don’t know if this is good, and I don’t know if changing it is good. Now I’m completely stuck. When I was talking to Christian, I’d send this big list — I’m literally talking about one snare hit. I’d be like, “This one snare. What do you think?” And he’s like, “I think it sounds good.” I’m realizing that there are other incredibly talented people who, if they think something is great, then I’m just sort of being crazy and overthinking the tiny little things. It got to the place that it got to for a reason and maybe you don’t need to dissect things into oblivion in order for it to be any better. 

Galantis, you’ve been bringing more featured artists into the fold with each of your albums. Meanwhile, 5SOS have become more collaborative within themselves, with Michael stepping into a more prominent producer role. Tell me about your evolution as collaborators over the years. 
Galantis: Those relationships are everything to me. Yes, I like to meet new people and work, but I’d rather go with someone that I’ve worked with before because you can jump straight into it. You know each other, how you work, how you feel, how you talk, how you express sounds and production, or songwriting in general. With someone new, there’s always that thing where you’re trying to be so respectful that you might not say what you really feel. But if you have that respect, the ego or whatever it is doesn’t matter.
Clifford: Collaborating with us is hard because the four of us know each other so well that when it comes to saying ideas, we’re so direct and able to be really honest with each other. When you’re talking to somebody where it’s a fresh relationship, it’s a little bit harder. But I feel like it’s something that we’re good at — at least about expressing what we want and don’t want to be different about something.
Galantis: Michael was someone new, but that’s why I needed to say how natural and organic it felt from our first conversation. We felt like we’d been working before. I think that maybe somewhat depends on who you are, but if you are seasoned in the industry, I think that helps you feel each other out really quickly. 

“Lighter” serves as a major introduction to Galantis’ first album in four years. How have you been thinking about how both you and your fans have grown over that time? 
Galantis: I’ve been telling myself not to get affected by people’s assumption of what I should be doing next. That’s very easy to get drawn into, especially if you have a big hit. People want to assume that you’re writing another one. It’s not like I don’t want to do that, but I don’t believe that you can write another one. The nerve and the DNA and the reason you like that one is because when I created that one, I didn’t give a shit about anything. That’s why it sounds like that. So, if I do a new one and you’re like, “Oh, it doesn’t sound like that.” Yeah, that’s because I can never go back, and the listener can’t go back, either. 
Clifford: It’s funny that music becomes more about your time in life and what that song means to you in that moment versus just loving that song. There are so many songs that I’ve listened to over the last three or four months that are really amazing songs, but I connect with them so much because my daughter was just born three and a half months ago. 
Galantis: There’s a connection — you and that song. That’s also why I can never beat that song because you’re not going to be in that position the next time. Things that happen that day, that week, that year — a lot of things go into it that you connect to. Those pieces, no musician can control. That’s why you go back to it, and you feel a certain way when you listen to it again. If you’re getting fed everything through like short snippets on social media, what is it you’re gonna connect it to? Nothing special was happening. 
Clifford: It’s incredible, as far as being a producer and being an artist, that we get to be a part of that experience sometimes.